I think I was hoping he was faking. He didn't kill Nate, he didn't come after any of us, he didn't do anything to remove hope entirely.
[ he shrugs. ]
I thought maybe, you know, he thought he could keep a better eye on Thawne or something. That if I just kept trying we could talk or I could get him to crack, or something.
( Not all of it. Perhaps Gideon had simply believed Ray when he'd told her of Rip's state, not having been here and seeing him from the earlier time point. They'd just gotten his memories back, she'd just saved him, yet it hadn't yet happened. That was easier to accept in the initial moment than the history.
Her tone has dipped a little, not quieter necessarily but lower. It's void of the usual emotion that a human may possess in their voice, but her speech also isn't the usual chipperness that Ray has come to know )
I had hoped that talking to him may have helped to bring some of his memories to the surface.
( They had spent an awfully long time together, and Gideon had always been there for him )
But I also know the current state of Rip's mind, and what Eobard Thawne did to him. Such a hope was foolish.
( Impossible. A simple conversation could never help, not with the bitterness and loathing that Rip seemed to possess; emotions that he also directed towards Gideon herself )
[ whether he's defending himself or her, ray figures it doesn't actually matter. lately he feels like the only one willing to keep hoping in the face of insurmountable odds. his voice is quiet still, calmer than it normally might be. ]
When it seems impossible, that's when it matters the most.
( If only because they've done it before. If they hadn't perhaps it would have been just hope, and sadness.
The thing is that Gideon isn't used to failure on a personal note. There have been times when their plans had failed; when Rip had almost died or the Waverider could have been destroyed. Those were easier to cope with -- she just looked for a new plan, something new to do. Failing with Rip... it was almost betrayal. No, it was. With how he'd acted, doing the one thing that he didn't do. That was betrayal )
Because we cannot lose him. Not with all of our efforts to help him.
( Both in their world and here. It just felt more difficult now )
[ he's been through the rip fix himself, and he knows it's the right thing to do. rip's a dangerous man and kind of a dick on a good day. but he'd proven himself a good person, too. one who despite all the pain he's suffered still has more compassion in his pinky finger than all of them put together.
if ray could help it, he wouldn't let that be taken from rip too. ]
( Gideon doesn't mean that to add any guilt to how he already feels but for compassion. He shouldn't have died, Rip didn't need to do what he did... she'd said the same words when Rip had overridden her rather than simply talking to her. His response hadn't sat well )
How did it happen?
( Where, using what? Anything that would give her information on his thinking )
Yeah except now it wasn't an innocent. He won't have to live with it having been one of the kids, or someone who'll hold it against him.
[ he gets that out before taking a moment to get himself centered again. he'd told sarah parts, but other than that ray was keeping the details of the incident close. with gideon, he feels compelled to stick to the broad strokes.
ray keeps his statements centered on action, trying to skirt rip's words and motivations. ray had finally gotten rip to agree to talk, and had attempted to see if he could strike up a working truce. it was a gamble against staggering odds. ]
( Gideon listens without comment, building a sort of timeline about it, a picture in her head. She can imagine the fight easily, but it was less the fight that concerned her. He'd missed pieces -- the crucial pieces, and though it wouldn't be pleasant to talk about that was what Gideon needed )
I know that there was more. ( Despite knowing that what Rip had said wouldn't be pleasant, nor easy, to talk about it's also possible that Gideon's not asking as delicately as she should ) I need to know, Doctor Palmer. All of it.
[ in a rare move, ray scoots back and stands up to head to the little bar set sarah keeps in the corner of the living room. he doesn't often drink for himself, for the usual reasons people turn to alcohol. it's a social key he picked up once he was of age and moving through the usual channels of academia, and then moreso once he set his sights on the private sector.
drinking meant connections. the same as golf and squash and questionable establishments that made men feel more manly. it was a bonding tool for mick and rip and sara. a tool, that's all. ]
OK. Yeah, all right.
[ ray heaves a sigh. he knows she's right-- it's the logical play. this is best for everyone. for rip.
he still doesn't say everything. he pauses and skips in a stilted manner whenever he comes to a moment that had cut particularly deep. otherwise, he does his best to fill the gaps back in for her. standing at the bar, leaning against the set. eventually refilling his glass and moving back to his little place at the coffee table. ]
( Although there are still gaps in the story that Ray provides Gideon has a clearer picture, and truthfully Gideon doesn't need every insult that Rip had throw Ray's way. She has her clearer picture, and she doesn't intend to hurt the man more by asking him to relive everything.
Once Ray's finished speaking there's a silence -- a pause in distaste of what Ray had had to hear, of how it had no doubt made him feel.
It wasn't true, just words said to cause harm. And harm they had )
Thank you, Doctor Palmer. I'm not certain where our next move goes, but I'm already considering possibilities.
( #multitasking
But there's still the issue of who, as well as when and how. Ray and Gideon had already struck out against Rip, Nate had been wounded. Sending one person wasn't an option, and they were down a full team, but they had to do it together )
[ ray stays mostly silent, and were mick witness to it he'd probably call it pouting. felicity would agree with mick and while the world might implode given the implications of such an agreement, ray would argue that he's kind of allowed a little sulk session right now.
he fills the time gideon spends plotting shuffling back to the bar for a refill. ]
( She doesn't keep plotting, or at least doesn't solely plot. She lets that run as a background process, watching Ray as he refills his glass.
It occurs to her one thing: he'd indulged her curiosity but she hadn't afforded him the same opportunity. She'd admitted to seeing Rip but hadn't told him what her consequence had been )
Do you know what the closest thing to death for me is?
that startles him enough to slosh liquid onto the counter. he glances back at her before reaching to sop up his mess. he takes a guess, and it probably says more about him than he intends. the value he puts on a life and its effect on the world. ]
[ his chin lifts and settles down again in a slow nod. he speaks slowly, too. because he'd already expressed uncertainty about wonderland's rules of death in relation to an android... ]
And here in Wonderland...
[ he doesn't want to finish that sentence. if wonderland doesn't consider it a death, gideon would simply stop being. he clears his throat. ]
[ ray's brow furrows as the implications that come from that settle (which of course only bring up more questions he can't process right now). he doesn't want to be angry with rip, but where he could excuse his behavior with the others, gideon's suffering makes it harder. ]
( It's not technically avoiding the question because reactivated means being okay, right?
It also was something that Rip had done before but those had come with a good reason that she could forgive, like the Spear of Destiny. But this reason came with betrayal, not good. It meant that he'd do it again to stop her -- kill her for no reason, just to save himself )
( Told someone his plan to see if he could have back up, perhaps, but it was like they'd already said -- someone needed to try, and she appreciated his effort )
You could not have foreseen what he would do. I could, perhaps. He overrode Captain Lance's orders on the Waverider, causing me to set the self-destruct sequence and release him. I should have expected that he would do so again.
[ now he does jump to fix, now that he realizes where gideon's head's at. ]
No, don't do that. Things are different in Wonderland. We had to know if it did something to him, or if he was from after us but had plans to deal with Thawne, or if maybe he'd just be different in the absence of the spear.
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( There's only a couple of seconds pause before Gideon clarifies more )
I had kept in mind your words, but knowing his mind as I do I had wanted to see how it had been altered.
( Okay, she already knew how it had been altered given her previous venture into his mind but she hadn't had the opportunity to speak with him )
Knowing what he thinks may have provided us with more information in order to help him.
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I think I was hoping he was faking. He didn't kill Nate, he didn't come after any of us, he didn't do anything to remove hope entirely.
[ he shrugs. ]
I thought maybe, you know, he thought he could keep a better eye on Thawne or something. That if I just kept trying we could talk or I could get him to crack, or something.
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( Not all of it. Perhaps Gideon had simply believed Ray when he'd told her of Rip's state, not having been here and seeing him from the earlier time point. They'd just gotten his memories back, she'd just saved him, yet it hadn't yet happened. That was easier to accept in the initial moment than the history.
Her tone has dipped a little, not quieter necessarily but lower. It's void of the usual emotion that a human may possess in their voice, but her speech also isn't the usual chipperness that Ray has come to know )
I had hoped that talking to him may have helped to bring some of his memories to the surface.
( They had spent an awfully long time together, and Gideon had always been there for him )
But I also know the current state of Rip's mind, and what Eobard Thawne did to him. Such a hope was foolish.
( Impossible. A simple conversation could never help, not with the bitterness and loathing that Rip seemed to possess; emotions that he also directed towards Gideon herself )
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[ whether he's defending himself or her, ray figures it doesn't actually matter. lately he feels like the only one willing to keep hoping in the face of insurmountable odds. his voice is quiet still, calmer than it normally might be. ]
When it seems impossible, that's when it matters the most.
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( If only because they've done it before. If they hadn't perhaps it would have been just hope, and sadness.
The thing is that Gideon isn't used to failure on a personal note. There have been times when their plans had failed; when Rip had almost died or the Waverider could have been destroyed. Those were easier to cope with -- she just looked for a new plan, something new to do. Failing with Rip... it was almost betrayal. No, it was. With how he'd acted, doing the one thing that he didn't do. That was betrayal )
Because we cannot lose him. Not with all of our efforts to help him.
( Both in their world and here. It just felt more difficult now )
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[ he's been through the rip fix himself, and he knows it's the right thing to do. rip's a dangerous man and kind of a dick on a good day. but he'd proven himself a good person, too. one who despite all the pain he's suffered still has more compassion in his pinky finger than all of them put together.
if ray could help it, he wouldn't let that be taken from rip too. ]
I'm glad it was just me.
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( Gideon doesn't mean that to add any guilt to how he already feels but for compassion. He shouldn't have died, Rip didn't need to do what he did... she'd said the same words when Rip had overridden her rather than simply talking to her. His response hadn't sat well )
How did it happen?
( Where, using what? Anything that would give her information on his thinking )
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[ he gets that out before taking a moment to get himself centered again. he'd told sarah parts, but other than that ray was keeping the details of the incident close. with gideon, he feels compelled to stick to the broad strokes.
ray keeps his statements centered on action, trying to skirt rip's words and motivations. ray had finally gotten rip to agree to talk, and had attempted to see if he could strike up a working truce. it was a gamble against staggering odds. ]
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I know that there was more. ( Despite knowing that what Rip had said wouldn't be pleasant, nor easy, to talk about it's also possible that Gideon's not asking as delicately as she should ) I need to know, Doctor Palmer. All of it.
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[ he can't help but look a little uncomfortable, sitting up straighter and furrowing his brow. he shakes his head against the idea of it. ]
He made an example of me, what more is there to know?
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( Where he goes, what he wants. How they can get to him )
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drinking meant connections. the same as golf and squash and questionable establishments that made men feel more manly. it was a bonding tool for mick and rip and sara. a tool, that's all. ]
OK. Yeah, all right.
[ ray heaves a sigh. he knows she's right-- it's the logical play. this is best for everyone. for rip.
he still doesn't say everything. he pauses and skips in a stilted manner whenever he comes to a moment that had cut particularly deep. otherwise, he does his best to fill the gaps back in for her. standing at the bar, leaning against the set. eventually refilling his glass and moving back to his little place at the coffee table. ]
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Once Ray's finished speaking there's a silence -- a pause in distaste of what Ray had had to hear, of how it had no doubt made him feel.
It wasn't true, just words said to cause harm. And harm they had )
Thank you, Doctor Palmer. I'm not certain where our next move goes, but I'm already considering possibilities.
( #multitasking
But there's still the issue of who, as well as when and how. Ray and Gideon had already struck out against Rip, Nate had been wounded. Sending one person wasn't an option, and they were down a full team, but they had to do it together )
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he fills the time gideon spends plotting shuffling back to the bar for a refill. ]
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It occurs to her one thing: he'd indulged her curiosity but she hadn't afforded him the same opportunity. She'd admitted to seeing Rip but hadn't told him what her consequence had been )
Do you know what the closest thing to death for me is?
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that startles him enough to slosh liquid onto the counter. he glances back at her before reaching to sop up his mess. he takes a guess, and it probably says more about him than he intends. the value he puts on a life and its effect on the world. ]
I guess I'd imagine ... wiping your data.
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( Close, but she'd still function (depending on the depth of the wipe). She'd stell be alive )
Shutting down my program. Without it ever being reactivated I would no longer exist.
( And she can't turn it back on herself )
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And here in Wonderland...
[ he doesn't want to finish that sentence. if wonderland doesn't consider it a death, gideon would simply stop being. he clears his throat. ]
So I'm assuming Rip threatened you?
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( It wasn't a threat, but a test or assessment. One done in the cruelest way that he could )
Captain Hunter wanted to see if all of my program still functioned as it had on the Waverider. Including my override protocols.
( Fill in the blank )
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Are you OK?
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( It's not technically avoiding the question because reactivated means being okay, right?
It also was something that Rip had done before but those had come with a good reason that she could forgive, like the Spear of Destiny. But this reason came with betrayal, not good. It meant that he'd do it again to stop her -- kill her for no reason, just to save himself )
I haven't seen him since.
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[ normally, he'd be jumping to fix it. to remove that capability entirely. ]
If I'd known...I'd probably still have messed up, but. [ shrug. ]
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( Told someone his plan to see if he could have back up, perhaps, but it was like they'd already said -- someone needed to try, and she appreciated his effort )
You could not have foreseen what he would do. I could, perhaps. He overrode Captain Lance's orders on the Waverider, causing me to set the self-destruct sequence and release him. I should have expected that he would do so again.
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No, don't do that. Things are different in Wonderland. We had to know if it did something to him, or if he was from after us but had plans to deal with Thawne, or if maybe he'd just be different in the absence of the spear.
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( He had warned her, after all )
I listened to your warning, but didn't truly consider it.
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